New Testament Church Proliferation Digest


Spreading the Gospel via House Churches


June 12, 2001 Vol 01 : 004

 

[New Testament Church Proliferation] This just in!

Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Exporting to help new church planter's?

[New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing? Quit My Job? - WAS: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Re: Quit My Job? - WAS: [New Testament Church Planting] Fishing?

Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Re: Quit My Job? - WAS: [New Testament Church Planting] Fishing?

 

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:11:49 -0400 From: David Anderson,

Subject: [New Testament Church Proliferation] This just in!

Dear workers in our Lord's Vineyard, you co-laborers with God,

We rejoice to hear of churches where there once was not one, regardless of where or how they meet. God is at work on every front. Glory to his name!!!!!

David Anderson, Bristol, TN

* OVER 5,000 HOUSE CHURCHES PLANTED IN INDIA. From small beginnings around Ludhiana in Punjab in 1989 has grown one of India's largest church-planting movements. The missionary initiative 'Operation Agape' was started by a small number of Christian doctors, and now involves 392 Christians in an eight-state network which has planted 5,900 churches in recent years, of which 5,208 are house churches. The organization also has two Bible Training Centers, video Bible schools, social projects for slum children, and initiatives for education and self-help through small business programs. The movement's aim is to plant a Christian church in every postal code area in northern India, forming a fine network of churches working towards achieving the New Testament Commission of making disciples of northern India. (Source: FridayFax)

* PAKISTAN: 500 HOUSE CHURCHES PLANTED IN ONE YEAR. "In 1991, God gave Lahore's Rev. William Johnson a vision for 50,000 new churches. Through cooperation with the Swiss strategy group 'Kingdom Ministries', Johnson believes increasingly strongly that it will be house churches, not traditional churches, which reach the predominantly Muslim nation's population. Since a conference 12 months ago, over 500 house churches have already been planted. Church planters' reports reveal that miraculous healings are the main 'door opener' for church plants." (Source: FridayFax)

 

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Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Aldwin Naruse

Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Exporting to help new church planter's?

- --- Link wrote: I know some people involved with church planter work here in this country. I've heard this scenario more than once:

Young people are the ones who respond to the Gospel. Teens or people in their early 20's aren't economically viable yet, become Christians, get kicked out of their parent's homes, and are in difficult straights financially. This type of family persecution seems to be common.

One church planter I know makes about $50 a month. He's a local. He had young people in this situation in his church. He was wanting someone to export handicrafts to help put the people in his church to work, or maybe start a pig-raising business for them.

Another group doing church planter has the same problem. Young people get kicked out of their homes. Local workers don't make enough to support them. I met with some of the new converts from this ministry. It was an honor to meet people who had suffered for Jesus. These men were probably in their early 20's, and someone was teaching them to make rattan baskets. He knew how to make furniture, too. They didn't have the equipment to glaze the rattan yet though.

Some of the other m's with this network work out on an island that makes beautiful pottery that reminds me of some pictures I saw of ancient Greek pottery. There are all kinds of hand-woven cloth from other islands available here. There is so much good stuff here, but anyone doing a business needs to be careful about quality control.

I've been thinking about trying to export some of the rattan myself, but don't know anything about exporting, so I've been thinking about trying to find someone else to do it. It would give new believers a job during the current economic crisis. I've been thinking how great it would be if there were a non-profit foundation or even a private businessman buying the goods from these new believers to help them make a living. These believers would be learning to work with their own hands, and maybe could make enough to live decently by local standards.

I heard about a man in another city exporting goods for ministry. Maybe I can hook up with him. Maybe I can refer him to these other people.

If someone wants to come over here to South East Asia to set up an exporting foundation or for-profit business, there is some good stuff here, cheap, and it could really help people the ministry. If anyone wants to import handicrafts, baskets, pottery, those digidy doo musical instruments, hand-woven cloth, furniture or other goods from here, let me know, and if I find someone here who wants to set up an exporting foundation or business to help church planter work here, maybe I can contact you.

Link Hudson

hello, thank you for your email, i am interested in importing handicrafts made in southeast Asia, please email me with some product list and prices, aldwin naruse,

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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:02:50 -0400 From: "Michael Gastin"

Subject: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Greetings!

'Nuther question for everyone:

How do you evangelize as a house church church planter?

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

Also, while we are on the topic, do you find yourself talking more with other Chr*s*t*ans and trying to convert them to the home church model or in talking with unbelievers?

This is particularly interesting to me when talking about a church planter role. Obviously, a house church in American suburbia can survive and grow just by word of mouth and existing friendships. Yet, when plowing new ground to plant the seeds of the good news, I wonder what model is used to catch fish? Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

Man - I really look forward to some good conversation on this!

Mike

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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:07:53 -0700 (PDT) From: greg,

Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

I will be planting a vineyard church this Fall. As a finance professional, I see very few reasons why I should quit my job until I feel the church can support me and my family of 5 full-time.

Can any of you offer any reasons why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

- --- Michael Gastin wrote: Greetings!

'Nuther question for everyone:

How do you evangelize as a house church church planter?

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

Also, while we are on the topic, do you find yourself talking more with other Chr*s*t*ans and trying to convert them to the home church model or in talking with unbelievers?

This is particularly interesting to me when talking about a church planter role. Obviously, a house church in American suburbia can survive and grow just by word of mouth and existing friendships. Yet, when plowing new ground to plant the seeds of the good news, I wonder what model is used to catch fish? Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

Man - I really look forward to some good conversation on this!

Mike


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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:29:45 -0400 From: "Michael Gastin"

Subject: Quit My Job? - WAS: [New Testament Church Planting] Fishing?

Hi Greg -

How about never quitting your job, planting a small house ch*rch, allowing the members of your fellowship to see to the body ministry, encouragement and so on. that frees you up to be a normal human being, like the rest of the sheep, btw!)

Then you have no worry over buildings, salaries and all that organization trouble that gets in the way of the work of the gospel? Also, as a financial professional, think about the practical issues - ROI. What is the return on investment with most ch*rches? Why put so much time and money into it? What is the real goal of your desire to plant? My guess is to serve God and to establish His kingdom - can't that be done without all the trappings of an organization?

Please note - I am making no assumptions of your direction, motives and all that, so please do not read any criticism in my comments above. I am just throwing them out there for your consideration and possible response.

Mike

- ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: <ntchurch planter> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

I will be planting a vineyard church this Fall. As a finance professional, I see very few reasons why I should quit my job until I feel the church can support me and my family of 5 full-time.

Can any of you offer any reasons why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

--- Michael Gastin wrote: Greetings!

'Nuther question for everyone:

How do you evangelize as a house church church planter?

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

Also, while we are on the topic, do you find yourself talking more with other Chr*s*t*ans and trying to convert them to the home church model or in talking with unbelievers?

This is particularly interesting to me when talking about a church planter role. Obviously, a house church in American suburbia can survive and grow just by word of mouth and existing friendships. Yet, when plowing new ground to plant the seeds of the good news, I wonder what model is used to catch fish? Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

Man - I really look forward to some good conversation on this!

Mike

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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:53:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Link H, Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Btw, to those who don't know, house church is house or home ch. and ic is institutional ch.

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

I stood on a street corner in a college town many years ago and overheard a brother named Jeffry witnessing to a young man who I remember was an apprentice electrician. The electrician started out asking how he could know their was a God. Jeffry was very eloquent and shared the Gospel with the electrician. Eventually, the electrician admitted that he knew their was a God and he knew he wasn't right with God.

It was getting late, so Jeffry invited this fellow to go with him to the Huddle House, an allnight food chain which resembles Waffle house to continue their conversation.

Jesus did a lot of teaching people about the Gospel over dinner tables. He was criticized for eating with sinners. I've heard that most people who become Christians do so through the witness of friends and relatives. some who come up during altar calls already have been witnessed to over and over.

'Relational' witnessing might even be safer. Anyone can follow a crowd of people to the front during some emotional songs, and repeat words, just following the crowd. I've never seen that happen during a private conversation. Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

I know someone involved in house church that did a revival type meeting. He was an African. He advertised 'African power night' and the meeting there in Europe was filled with witches and people like that. Some repented.

I suspect a lot of the preaching we read about in the Bible was not done tent-crusade style. I doubt Paul had a praise band sing before he preached in the Aereopogas. It seems like most people who go to crusades are Christians anyway. If you get a crowd of unbelievers, does it make sense to lead them in praise songs _before_ they believe?

Paul went into the synagogue and preached Jesus to the Jews. But he would also go discuss things with people in the marketplaces.

I've seen campus preachers stand up and talk to crowds of students. That's a lot different than preaching to a room full of Christians and two or three unbelievers about the Gospel. It seems like most witnessing is one-on-one or in very small groups. Someone can stand up in a crowd of unbelievers and tell them about Jesus, whether their church meeting is in a home or a cathedral.

Wolfgang Simson's book _Houses that Change the World_ describes how a house church meeting can feel less threatening for an unbeliever. After all, he's going to someone's house to eat dinner.


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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) From: greg, Subject: Re: Quit My Job? - WAS: [New Testament Church Planting] Fishing?

That sounds like an idea with a great deal of promise.

Has that been your approach? If so, can you tell me a little bit of your story? How it came about? +'s, -'s ... and what kind of resistance you have met? Also, what do you do when you outgrow your home? Isn't this essentially a cell-based concept?

Intrigued ... thanks!

- --- Michael Gastin wrote: Hi Greg -

How about never quitting your job, planting a small house ch*rch, allowing the members of your fellowship to see to the body ministry, encouragement and so on. that frees you up to be a normal human being, like the rest of the sheep, btw!)

Then you have no worry over buildings, salaries and all that organization trouble that gets in the way of the work of the gospel? Also, as a financial professional, think about the practical issues - ROI. What is the return on investment with most ch*rches? Why put so much time and money into it? What is the real goal of your desire to plant? My guess is to serve God and to establish His kingdom - can't that be done without all the trappings of an organization?

Please note - I am making no assumptions of your direction, motives and all that, so please do not read any criticism in my comments above. I am just throwing them out there for your consideration and possible response.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: <ntchurch planter> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

I will be planting a vineyard church this Fall. As a finance professional, I see very few reasons why I should quit my job until I feel the church can support me and my family of 5 full-time.

Can any of you offer any reasons why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

--- Michael Gastin wrote: Greetings!

'Nuther question for everyone:

How do you evangelize as a house church church planter?

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

Also, while we are on the topic, do you find yourself talking more with other Chr*s*t*ans and trying to convert them to the home church model or in talking with unbelievers?

This is particularly interesting to me when talking about a church planter role. Obviously, a house church in American suburbia can survive and grow just by word of mouth and existing friendships. Yet, when plowing new ground to plant the seeds of the good news, I wonder what model is used to catch fish? Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

Man - I really look forward to some good conversation on this!

Mike

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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Link H,

Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

- --- greg wrote: I will be planting a vineyard church this Fall. As a finance professional, I see very few reasons why I should quit my job until I feel the church can support me and my family of 5 full-time.

Can any of you offer any reasons why I shouldn't?

I can offer some possible reasons for you not to quit your job. Your kids need food, clothes, and stuff like that.

If God directs you to quit your job, walk in faith and trust Him to provide the finances. Paul could have exercised his rights to receive food and support among those he was ministering to in Corinth. Of course, in that case, his position as someone worthy of receiving support was rather clear. He was preaching the Gospel (preach in that passage is related to our word for evangelism.) He was also the one who had laid the foundation of Christ among them by winning people to Christ and ministering in the grace God had given Him.

Even the local church pastors that Paul recognized may have worked to support themselves. Paul taught that elders were worthy of 'double honor.' But he tells the elders of Ephesus to follow his example of working with his own hands to support the weak. He said he had coveted no man's silver or gold. The example Paul gave the elder was one of yielded his rights to support.

So a minister of the Gospel is not under some kind of obligation to only live from gifts unless that is something the Lord tells him to do.

Just pray about what God wants you to do. You are under any kind of Biblial obligation to quit your job.

Link


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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:24:23 -0400 From: Mark Ware, Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

Nope. Sounds reasonable to me. Unless perhaps the needs of the flock are more demanding and you need more time (as opposed to money) and then, perhaps you should dump your day job and adjust your level of living. But since you are just starting the church in the fall, I would assume you would not have a large demand on you in terms of counseling, etc.. which can burn time like '69 Dart burns gas. :-)

Mark Coral Springs FL

On Tuesday, June 12, 2001, at 10:07 AM, greg wrote:

I will be planting a vineyard church this Fall. As a finance professional, I see very few reasons why I should quit my job until I feel the church can support me and my family of 5 full-time.

Can any of you offer any reasons why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

--- Michael Gastin wrote: Greetings!

'Nuther question for everyone:

How do you evangelize as a house church church planter?

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

Also, while we are on the topic, do you find yourself talking more with other Chr*s*t*ans and trying to convert them to the home church model or in talking with unbelievers?

This is particularly interesting to me when talking about a church planter role. Obviously, a house church in American suburbia can survive and grow just by word of mouth and existing friendships. Yet, when plowing new ground to plant the seeds of the good news, I wonder what model is used to catch fish? Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

Man - I really look forward to some good conversation on this!

Mike

------- <><><> -------

 

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:28:10 -0400 From: Mark Ware, Subject: Re: Quit My Job? - WAS: [New Testament Church Planting] Fishing?

Thanks for defining home church and church planter but why is church being spelled below without the "u"? It appears to be a consistent typ-o (not likely) or perhaps there is no "YOU" in church???

Admittedly new and confused with some home church code talkers. :-)

blessings, Mark

On Tuesday, June 12, 2001, at 10:29 AM, Michael Gastin wrote:

Hi Greg -

How about never quitting your job, planting a small house ch*rch, allowing the members of your fellowship to see to the body ministry, encouragement and so on. that frees you up to be a normal human being, like the rest of the sheep, btw!)

Then you have no worry over buildings, salaries and all that organization trouble that gets in the way of the work of the gospel? Also, as a financial professional, think about the practical issues - ROI. What is the return on investment with most ch*rches? Why put so much time and money into it? What is the real goal of your desire to plant? My guess is to serve God and to establish His kingdom - can't that be done without all the trappings of an organization?

Please note - I am making no assumptions of your direction, motives and all that, so please do not read any criticism in my comments above. I am just throwing them out there for your consideration and possible response.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: <ntchurch planter> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [New Testament Church Proliferation] Fishing?

I will be planting a vineyard church this Fall. As a finance professional, I see very few reasons why I should quit my job until I feel the church can support me and my family of 5 full-time.

Can any of you offer any reasons why I shouldn't?

Thanks!

--- Michael Gastin wrote: Greetings!

'Nuther question for everyone:

How do you evangelize as a house church church planter?

I have seen many IC's rely on their buildings, programs, special events and so on to bring in new people to the 'flock'. Since all a home church has is a dinner table and a living room, how should we go about spreading the Good News?

Also, while we are on the topic, do you find yourself talking more with other Christians and trying to convert them to the home church model or in talking with unbelievers?

This is particularly interesting to me when talking about a church planter role. Obviously, a house church in American suburbia can survive and grow just by word of mouth and existing friendships. Yet, when plowing new ground to plant the seeds of the good news, I wonder what model is used to catch fish? Many demons use some sort of big outreach event(s). Big tents, music and so on. Maybe a drama or concert. What about home church church planter'ing?

Man - I really look forward to some good conversation on this!

Mike


End of New Testament Church Proliferation Digest V1 #4




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