New Testament Church Proliferation Digest

Spreading the Gospel via House Churches

Sept 4, 2001 Vol 01 : 062

NT Church Proliferation Digest Tuesday, September 4 2001 Vol 01 : 062

Re: [ntcp] Bible education for the church
RE: [ntcp] Bible education for the church
Re: [ntcp] City or Meeting level elders, or none at all for that matter.
[ntcp] Cheap Training Materials
RE: [ntcp] Bible education for the church
[ntcp] City or Meeting level elders, or none at all for that matter
re: [ntcp] City or Meeting level elders, or none at all for that matter

Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 12:18:10 -0700
From: jferris
Subject: Re: [ntcp] Bible education for the church

Link wrote:

>Michael Millier pointed something out in an email to me recently. The book of
>Galatians, though apparently written to churches that included a large number of
>Gentiles (that the Judaizers wanted to circumcise) assumes a deep knowledge of
>the Old Testament-- a level of knowledge most modern Christians don't have.
>That's pretty amazing when you think that these were Gentile converts to
>Christianity. Paul made several detailed points out of the Old Testament, as if
>these Gentile Christians already knew these scriptures.
>Let's think about the cultural background. Many of the Gentile converts were
>probably God-fearing Gentiles already interested in the God of Israel before
>Paul came along. And they may have heard the Law read, explained, and debated
>in the synagogues before Paul came along. And new additions to the church who
>had come out of paganism may have continued this deep study of the scriptures.

Dear Link,

Another possibility is that the presumed knowledge of the Galatians
argues for a late date in its writing. If Paul had already been there on
three occasions, and shared as much as he did in his letters, presumably
a lot more than that, then they might well have ad a handle on things
wel enough to appreciate what Paul was writing about.



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Date: 03 Sep 2001 18:43:21 +0100
Subject: RE: [ntcp] Bible education for the church

Dear Link,

I like your idea of cheap training materials. In the past I have used materials produced by SEAN (Seminario Evangelico Alcanzando las Naciones). These are cheap A4 booklets building together into a good pastoral training package, but starting from a new or pre-believer viewpoint. The first lesson is how to find a text in the Bible! Although first written in Spanish these materials are available in several languages.

At the moment I am preparing to use some new material called "Instituto de CapacitaciÛn Ministerial", First produced in the U.S. and now translated for use in Spain and accredited by the AOG seminary here, It is a very similar package to SEAN, whereby a student can study either with a local tutor, or by correspondence. This course too has a low level entry point, and to my mind has the advantage of being modular rather than secuential in its presentation, therefore point can be covered as they come up. One of the newly appointed elders here will be starting the course with me later this month, along with two other members of the church here.

There is a lot of material already available, much of which is soso to say the least. The above are the best I have seen with a low entry level.


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Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 15:30:52 -0700
From: jferris
Subject: Re: [ntcp] City or Meeting level elders, or none at all for that matter.

Dear Keith,

Thanks you for your recent, how did you put it?

"not very scientific but real" observations.

I think they are very helpful to the discussion. The eldership that is needed is the one that has authority in the context of our difficulties. If our difficulties are confined within our "small group, then that eldership might be sufficient, but when they spread beyond that group, then we need the help of the eldership over a larger constituency. In every case, honor and respect for those who are over us in the faith is essential, if the Kingdom of God is going to be free of Gentile authority style, (overlords) There remains the need to operate in the spirit of not laying hands in haste. that only subjects "want to be s" to the snare of the Devil. At what ever level, elders need to be raised up by The Lord, and not by those with divisive agendas.

So glad that you are back in the thick of it!

Yours in christ,


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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:37:07 -0700
From: "George Patterson"
Subject: [ntcp] Cheap Training Materials

Dear Link,

SEAN's Train And Multiply pastoral training materials are also inexpensive
(users get a license to reproduce locally) and have an even lower entry
level than the other SEAN materials. They use a menu approach that enables
users to begin at any stage in church development (or ground zero) that fits
the current situation for any user. For more information see For information on mentoring new users, contact me For mentoring in general to train church
planters and pastors see my site
George Patterson, author of Train&Multiply

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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:47:46 -0400
From: "vanessadd"
Subject: RE: [ntcp] Bible education for the church

Keith, I'm in Venezuela and need materials. Are you a homechurcher, too? I'd
like to leanr more about those materials.


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Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:38:19 +0200
From: "Deborah"
Subject: [ntcp] City or Meeting level elders, or none at all for that matter

I hope everyone will forgive my neurosis, but I feel the compulsion to
again make sure we're really reading and saying what Scripture itself is
saying. Though agreeing with many points of Keith's post, he wrote
something to which I think it necessary to answer, analyzing his wording
(and meaning) versus that of the biblical passage to which he alludes.
Keith wrote:

> I am drawn to the image of the twelve year old Jesus, ARGUING

> with the elders in the temple. His spiritual maturity and authority

> CONFOUNDED them all.

Notice the words I have placed in ALL CAPS for emphasis, then
notice what the Bible (NKJ) says, again with my emphases. Note the

"Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the teachers, both LISTENING to them and ASKING
THEM QUESTIONS. And all who heard Him were ASTONISHED at His
understanding and answers" (Luk. 2:46, 47).

Keith (and others I've heard) say that Jesus was "arguing," as if he had
a beef with these teachers. The text doesn't suggest that. He was
listening well and asking some insightful questions.

Keith (and others I've heard) say that these teachers in the
temple were "confounded" by Jesus' "argu[ments]", as if _he_ were
teaching them. Luke portrays the teachers as merely "astonished," with
no hint of a conflict or reversal of roles. They saw a particularly
bright kid and, like any of us would be, they were surprised. Jesus
understood many of the issues they were discussing and was answering
their questions with a high level of insight. That's all.

The reason I bring up such a "non-issue" on a listserve about
church planting is that this is the _New Testament_ Church Planting
list, and as such requires us all to be careful when handling biblical
material to bulster or illustrate our views. Though, I'm convinced, a
number of opinions can be accomodated by the Scriptures themselves (just
read this list for a week) so far as they are linked to grammar, logic,
and pertinent history/culture, when an opinion deviates substantially
from these then we are reading our own ideas into the text and hence
have left the realm of biblically-based church planting, polity,
whatever. So while realising that Keith will probably agree with the
conclusions of the above analysis, he may be wondering what's the big
deal. Have the thought police invaded this list? And all I can say is
you and I must be careful when using God's word to let it really say
what it is saying, or the little errors can compound into errors that
may lead to more serious errors in our doctrine and practice.


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Date: 04 Sep 2001 18:59:40 +0100
From: castillofuerte
Subject: re: [ntcp] City or Meeting level elders, or none at all for that matter

Your right sloppy exegesis, slap on the wrist Keith! Don't do it again!


Please, please don't analyse all that I say with a fine toothed comb. If I want to make an infalible statement I will be wearing a white dress and a triple-tiara (just a joke folks). I have seen too many worth while debate staunched by theological pickiness. In my mind changing the two words, in no way changes my awe for the twelve year old Jesus, who had entered into His Fathers House to be about His Fathers business. I look for leaders like Jesus!


End of New Testament Church Proliferation Digest V1 #62


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