NT Church Proliferation Digest Tuesday, October 30 2001 Vol 01 : 083
RE: [ntcp] 'Religion' is not a dirty word
[ntcp] Hand-chopping conversation
Re: [ntcp] 'Religion' is not a dirty word
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:06:10 -0800
Subject: RE: [ntcp] 'Religion' is not a dirty word
That was a powerful word from Jay. We are in a war. Let those who have
ears to hear, hear! We are not in a battle against flesh and blood. We are
in a war for the saints! "Your enemy, the devil, prowls around like a
roaring lion seeking someone to devour!"
To introduce myself, my name is Robert Crabbe. My wife Teresa and I are in
the process of beginning to plant a non-denominational church in Tustin,
California. We are not looking to transfer believers from their church to
our church but to "make disciples..."
Please pray for us in the fight! And may I encourage you, to KEEP ON
FIGHTING! STAY THE COURSE! NEVER GIVE UP! AND HAVING DONE ALL, TO PRESS
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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:50:51 +0700
Subject: [ntcp] Hand-chopping conversation
I mentioned earlier that I have a "Cousin" (code) friend at work who confessed
to having stolen something small as a child while we were discussing the penalty
of hand-chopping for theft found in his religion.
We went to a little food house for lunch today, just me and him. I brought up
the subject of him stealing batteries. He seemed remorseful over it. Anyway, I
asked him to put his hand on the table, and picked up a fork like I was going to
preforate his hand off with it. He laughed.
I told him about a hadith (traditional recorded sayings attributed to Moh. and
considered to be authoritative) about a woman who was arrested for theft and
taken to Moh.. She pled for forgiveness and to keep her hand. Moh. told her
that after she lost her hand, she would be as innocent as when she was born. He
was familiar with the hadith.
I asked him if that woman had to have her hand cut off to have her sins
forgiven, how he expected God to forgive him if his hand didn't get cut off?
We had an interesting discussion after that comparing Christianity to his
He admitted to being afraid of the day of judgement. He wasn't aware of the
hadith or Koranic saying that Jesus would be the judge at the end and I'll have
to look it up and show him.
My friend is contentious about praying. He related some of the teachings he had
heard about the judgement. I suspect some of the teachings- like the one about
the scale and the number one factor in the day of judgement being faithfulness
in prayer .
I told him about salvation through faith in Christ. He was surprised to hear
about promises of salvation in Christianity. He wasn't aware of that. I don't
think He knew about the passage that calls Jesus the Word of God either. I need
to look that up for him.
I shared with him my thoughts about how futile it is to try to earn salvation
with good works, and paraphrased some scripture on the subject. I told about
Jesus' parable about the servants who did what they were told and said they were
unprofitable servants who had only done what they were supposed to do. If God
_requires_ us to do good works, then it is a sin not to do them. But doing good
works won't wipe away our debt of sin to God. I told him about the teaching
that Abraham was justified by faith.
We talked about several other things. I told him something I borrowed from the
man from a Coptic church who seemed bold about evangelism that I met a few weeks
back. I pointed out that the Bible said that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was
born, and he seemed to think that was accurate. I asked him if he believed God
caused Mary to be pregnant. Then I said Jesus had no human father. If God
caused Mary to be pregnant, then who was Jesus' Father? He didn't have an
answer. He seemed to get my point.
I pointed out something I learned from a believer from Morocco who used to be a
'cousin.' He said that the Arabic word for 'son' in their confession that says
that God has no son is the word 'walad' which specifically refers to physical
offspring. Both Christians and 'cousins' agree that God did not ever have
sexual relations with anyone. The Arabic Christian confession is that Jesus is
the 'ibn' of God, the 'Son' of God. But not the 'walad' of God.
It was interesting to see the principle of the Law of God that was already at
work in the heart of this Gentile unbeliever. He is the type to always go to
meetings and to pray according to schedule. He went to a religious school, and
for people here, he probably knows his books fairly well. But they are in
another language. There were areas where I think he believes later traditions
are from the Koran (based on what m'naries have said about it.)
Anyway, I'd appreciate prayer about this. I'll try to look up passages from the
Koran, etc. for him. I have a book of the quotes in those writings related to
Jesus. Maybe we can continue the conversation later.
I'd appreciate prayer. I'm not really evangelistic. When I try to share the
Gospel, I just come on too strong at times. This time, though, things went
well. I know this man pretty well, and we get along well. He seemed to find
the conversation interesting, and didn't seem threatened, though he did fear the
judgement of God. He (rightly) has guilt for sinning against God.
I have a knee-jerk reaction sometimes to canned ev. techniques. For example,
saying to an insurance salesman "I have some eternal life insurance I'd like to
tell you about." But I do think there is some value to these things.
Half-jokingly offering to chop off the hand of a 'cousin' who has stolen may be
a good way to get deeper into a conversation. I'm also very grateful for those
who have told me the ways they have reasoned using their own book, about the
word of God, the virgin birth, and other things.
One thing I'm thinking about is pointing out that their book says that God is
the greatest deceiver of all. I could show that verse and then ask someone how
they knew that what they had been taught in their holy book was not just a great
deception sent to them by the great deceiver to trip them up.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would convict the world of sin, righteousness,
and judgement. I've started to wonder about this passage and how it relates to
ev'lism- something that could neatly be packaged into a sermon about evan'ism.
:) We just, like Jesus, do what we see the Father doing. The Father sent the
Spirit, and the work of the Spirit in the world is to convict of sin,
righteousness, and judgement. When we share the Gospel, we should just
cooperate with what the Spirit does, pointing out to people that they have
sinned and Jesus the solution for that sin. We should tell them about
righteousness, laying out God's righteous standard for them. We should talk
about judgment. In the end, we will all stand before a righteous God who will
judge us by the one Man Whom He has appointed, Jesus Christ. Since the Holy
Spirit is convicting the world in these areas, when we 'persuade men' we just
talk about the things the Spirit is convicting men of, cast down imaginations
with the word of God, and let the Holy Spirit do His work.
Please also pray for my friend. His name is Hedy. Pray that he will be
convicted and will see His need for faith in Christ.
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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 05:18:57 -0800
Subject: Re: [ntcp] 'Religion' is not a dirty word
>That was a powerful word from Jay. We are in a war. Let those who have
>ears to hear, hear! We are not in a battle against flesh and blood. We are
>in a war for the saints! "Your enemy, the devil, prowls around like a
>roaring lion seeking someone to devour!"
Good quote! I don't know if you noticed, but that was a word written by Peter
to young men who were tempted to try to be somebody before their time. Peter
ended with the encouragement that:"the God of all grace, who hath called us
unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while,
make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." 1st Peter 5:10
Elders are elders, and youngers are youngers, and God is the one who makes the
difference. Somewhere it is written,"love builds up, but knowledge puffs up."
Religious schools like those that are being run by the extreme cousins, only
produce popovers. Unfortunately, popovers come in a great variety.
Yours in Christ,
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:39:30 -0800
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Nate Krupp)
This is my first entry. I am Nate Krupp in Salem, OR, USA. GOD gave me an
understanding of the simple house church during a week of fasting and prayer in
1966. We have been working with the movement since then - helping new groups
get started, encouraging existing groups, bringing leaders together, writing
needed materials, publishing, etc.
The Great Commission can be fulfilled very quickly and simply by the planting
of networks of simple, multiplying house churches. You can learn about the
available materials we have by visiting our web site - www.ptwpublish.com. GOD
bless you all - NK
Nate and Joanne Krupp, 2121 Barnes Avenue SE, Salem, OR 97306, USA
Telephone 503/585-4054, Fax 503/375-8401
Check our web page at http://www.open.org/kruppnj
"But seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness, and all these other
things shall be added to you." - Matthew 6:33
End of New Testament Church Proliferation Digest V1 #83