New Testament Church Proliferation Digest


Spreading the Gospel via House Churches



NT Church Proliferation Digest Thursday, July 18 2002 Volume 02 : Number 123
Re: [NTCP] Every man a theologian
Re: [NTCP] Every man a theologian
[NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian
Re: [NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian
Re: [NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian
[NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian
Re: [NTCP] Every man a theologian

Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vanessa DiDomenico <van3hijos * yahoo>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Every man a theologian

> If you never believed the words of a human, then how can you trust those
> words for your salvation?

I said I don't trust men's words, but I am NOT saying that there are NO
men who have the gift of teaching or that are truthful. I only said that
I, me, myself was unable to believe ANY human. I only trust GOD. I NEVER
said others should not trust humans. Many people who don't have the gift
of seeing and teaching MUST hear from other humans, because they can't
hear God themselves. I, however, believe that God CAN and DOES communicate
directly with ALL those He wants. I am a quaker, and believe that the
inner light can teach anyone, and that ALL must be ministers if they are
christians.

You had to trust the words spoken by a man
> and
> you had to trust God to make them real to you.

BUT that NEVER happened to me. If it happened to you, well, fine with me.
> Existentialism has not been all bad. Modernism/science have done just as

> much harm in warping existentiallism into the perverse doctrine it now
> is as
> anything else. The very science that Newton and yourself espouse is what

> drove others to reject God.

Yes, of course, the devil knows how to turn ANYTHING done by a human
around for evil, if that human is not simply a tool of God. newton was
very snobbish, not a good christian, and his works could easily be used by
the devil. I myself stopped all work with chemistry and will rather starve
than work with a multinational because i know the devil uses all those
things to hurt man.

Existentiallism in and of itself is not
> evil or
> 'humanistic' in a perverse sort of way. It is simply a way of looking at

ANY way of looking at life but that in the Bible is EVIL - invented by the
devil. It doesn't need to be perverse to be against God. If God didn't
tell us to follow it, its paganism.

> life and finding meaning out of all the pain and misery that is in the
> world

Isn't the meaning clear? Our parents (Adam and Eve) CHOSE this for us!!
What could be more clear?

> Just as "evil" as existentiallism is to you, I believe "Deism", and in
> particular the deism of the American founding fathers is as much
> responsible
> for the mess of American culture as anything out there. Everything from
> the
> rise of deism (where it is believed that God created the world, much
> like
> the creator of a clock, and 'wound it up' and let it tick on and on and
> never interfered in its working)

Well, I believe He set up laws of science... and it happens that if you
take the time to study quantum physics, you will see that NOTHING is
defined... not the past OR the future, and that quantum proves that God
can change anything at any time whenever He wants. Study the REAL
sciences, and you will know God better. BTW; it also says that photons
were the first particles, and the bible also says that the first thing God
did to create the universe was to say 'Let there be light' which is what
photons happen to be.

to the rise of modernism and the
> 'worship'
> of evolutionary science,

Today, all who know real science have abandoned the classical beliefs of
evolution. Scientists just talk about it because there is nothing to
replace it with yet. However, that there have been changes, that is
obvious. WHy wouldn't God allow changes? BUT that we come from monkeys?
Not proven at all. In fact, the technique of carbon-14, used to 'prove'
that this or that is millions of years old is not valid, since it is
possible that at other times, the half-life of carbon-14 was shorter. And
by the way, darwin also had epilepsy.

I have never heard of that Finney guy you mention.

Vanessa


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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:03:00 -0400
From: "Samuel Buick" <aom_canada * hotmail>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Every man a theologian

THanks for your responses Vanessa. Really appreciate it

Sam :-)


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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:29:03 -0700
From: Dan Snyder <Dan * lsm>
Subject: [NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian

<< I only trust GOD. I NEVER said others should not trust humans. Many
people who don't have the gift
of seeing and teaching MUST hear from other humans, because they can't hear
God themselves. I, however, believe that God CAN and DOES communicate
directly with ALL those He wants. >>
Dear Vanessa,

You sound like a sister who loves the Lord very much. To that I say Amen!

It's very good to know Him as the Head.... but we need to go on to also know
Him as the Body. It's not an either/or thing. God speaks to us all directly
and He speaks to us all through His Body... that's the normal life of
believers. Isn't that encouraging! We need each other!

That matches Paul's experience in Acts 9. In meeting the Head, he also met
the Body... the Head said "why are you persecuting ME?" Paul may have
thought he was just persecuting those Jesus followers. But the Lord said
that's ME!

Then the Lord did something interesting... He sent Paul to meet a member of
the Body named Ananais. Surely the Lord could have opened Paul's eyes
directly, and He could have told Him directly what to do... but that's not
His way. He was bringing Paul into a practical realization (and I'd even say
*dependence*) on the Body.

The Lord works (and yes, even speaks) through His Body.

The NT shows that the God's work in this age is to build up the corporate
Body of Christ... If we see that, we'll realize the "just me and God" view
is actually a frustration to Him.

That doesn't in any way discount our personal relationship with Him. But as
we contact Him personally we become burdened for His desire, His goal - and
His goal is something corporate.

Your brother... and fellow member of the Body,

Dan


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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vanessa DiDomenico <van3hijos * yahoo>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian

Hi brother Dan,

> It's very good to know Him as the Head.... but we need to go on to also
> know
> Him as the Body.

Him as the body? Now I'm confused! I understand He is the HEAD, while the
church is the body, and WE are the church, NOT Him... HE is the head. Head
and body are NOT the same thing.

It's not an either/or thing. God speaks to us all
> directly
> and He speaks to us all through His Body...

From what i read in the Bible, He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit.
NOW, I'm REALLY confused!!! Could you show me the verse that says that we
hear him through the body?

that's the normal life of
> believers. Isn't that encouraging! We need each other!

yes, we need each other mostly for spiritual support (like when I'm
desperate because I have no job and my kids are starving, others support
me, helping me trust that God won't abandon me)

> That matches Paul's experience in Acts 9. In meeting the Head, he also
> met
> the Body... the Head said "why are you persecuting ME?" Paul may have
> thought he was just persecuting those Jesus followers. But the Lord said
> that's ME!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Paul didn't know Jesus before, that
would be why He says ME. Besides, if you were chasing a BODY, could you do
it without chasing the HEAD too? Or can you chase a body without also
chasing its head? That still doesn't make the head and the body the same
thing.

> Then the Lord did something interesting... He sent Paul to meet a member
> of
> the Body named Ananais.

Well, God HAS also sent me to speak to certain people. BUT He did so
directly to me, I didn't just hang out with other people waiting to hear
something; He actually sent me to a specific person, and has sent me to
specific places, and in moments when I've been starving and on the street,
He has actually sent people to me to bring me food, pay a hotel, pay my
ticket home... BUT it is directly, not just hanging out with other
'christians' (I say it that way, because i have seen that out of 100 who
cal themselves so, only 2-3 really are of the Lord)

Surely the Lord could have opened Paul's eyes
> directly, and He could have told Him directly what to do... but that's
> not
> His way. He was bringing Paul into a practical realization (and I'd even
> say
> *dependence*) on the Body.

I don't see that in the part of the Bible you mention. I think I'll go
read it in greek this weekend and see what it REALLY means.

> The Lord works (and yes, even speaks) through His Body.

I don't see how anyone could speak through a body. One speaks through the
mouth, which is in the HEAD.

> The NT shows that the God's work in this age is to build up the
> corporate
> Body of Christ... If we see that, we'll realize the "just me and God"
> view
> is actually a frustration to Him.

I NEVER said 'just me and Him.' There are millions others who have the
same personal relationship, and some I'm sure haven't even read the bible!
>
> That doesn't in any way discount our personal relationship with Him. But
> as
> we contact Him personally we become burdened for His desire, His goal -
> and
> His goal is something corporate.

Yes, corporate charity (the REAL translation of the word translated as
LOVE in most of the NT)... as a BODY we can do a lot for others, help them
if they ask for help, BUT we must NOT think that WE are absolutely
necessary for others to meet God, because then we give ourselves too much
importance.

LOVE, and I really enjoy these discussions;-)

Vanessa


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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:24:46 -0700
From: "Brittian's Mail" <louderthantheradio * attbi>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian
Vanessa,

I realize that this isn't directly an answer to your questions, but I think
that it is a wonderful examination of an often overlooked fact, and one
who'd consequences are so neglected, Christ and His Church are one, the
church is the fullness of Him who fills all things to overflowing.

It is so very practical, and valuable to all those who's path winds outside
the institutional church.

enjoy

brittian

The following message was delivered by Frank V. at the Southeastern
Regional Brothers Conference in Jacksonville, Florida on Saturday evening,
August 18, 2001.
SPIRITUAL EATING AND DRINKING: A CORPORATE ACTIVITY

I would like to speak to you tonight about a subject which is, to my mind,
probably one of the most eminently important matters that we as brothers in
the churches can wrestle with. I would like to begin by picking up a verse
of Scripture that Gene left us with at the end of his message last night. It
is in 1 Corinthians 12. I'd like to bring out three points about this
passage before I launch into what I have on my heart to share.

If you remember, we read this text, 1 Corinthians 12:12: "For even as the
body is one, and yet has many members, and all the members of the body
though they are many are one body, so also is Christ." That is one profound
passage of Scripture, isn't it? What is it saying? "As the body is one, and
we are members of that body, so also is Christ." That's saying that the
church is Christ. The church is the corporate Christ.

Then he goes on (v.13), "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one
body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we [plural]--we
the church, we the brothers and sisters--were all made to drink of one
Spirit."

Gene's point to us was this: that the task of eating and drinking Christ is
not given to the individual. It's given to the body. We cannot properly eat
of Him and drink of Him unless we are vitally connected to the body. This is
an action that the body takes. Of course the Lord dwells in the body. That's
the first point of this passage that I want to bring out on the heels of
what Gene shared.

THE MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST: A CORPORATE DISPLAY

But there is something else. As you continue to read this portion, 1
Corinthians 12, and you read on to Chapter 14, you have a most remarkable
explanation. It is an explanation that is unique to all Scripture. In 1
Corinthians 12, 13 and 14, the Holy Spirit pulls back the curtain, and we
get to look into a first-century church meeting. These chapters are the only
place in the New Testament where we can do this. We can actually peer into
it and see what goes on in the early meetings of the church.

What you have here is the following: You have a meeting where there is no
human headship. There's no human being leading this meeting. There is no
liturgy either. In other words, there is no order of worship that the
brothers and sisters are following. You have a meeting where every member is
free to share. And what they're sharing is the Lord Himself.

You also have a meeting where there are interruptions. Where a brother may
get up and speak, and a sister may be enlightened concerning what he is
saying. In this meeting, she is free to interrupt him, and he will yield to
her out of the freshness of her insight. That doesn't happen in the
organized church, does it? Can you imagine what would happen if while pastor
is giving his sermon, someone in the back says, "Brother, I would just like
to add to what you said." You can bet that there'd be snipers in the balcony
ready to take that person out. (Laughter.) This doesn't happen in the
institutional church.

But the crux behind this meeting lies in Chapter 12. Paul says that we are
members of a body. As such, some are eyes, some are ears, and some are
hands. It is only when those members come together and function--not sit in
a pew as part of a passive priesthood--but when they come together and
function, Christ is manifested. Christ is revealed. Christ is made visible.
Why? Because each member of His body is now functioning. This is most
remarkable.

If I can use an illustration, let's say that we took brother Robby out back.
And this is crude so forgive me, but we took a machete and we chopped him up
into a number of different pieces. Suppose then that we didn't know that it
was Robby out there who has been dismembered. And now the eye rolls into the
room. Then the hand crawls in. Get this picture. And now an ear comes
bopping in. You will not recognize by looking at those individual parts that
this is Robby Wilson. What has to happen is for all those parts to come
together. (Of course, when the mouth and tongue enter, we will all know that
it's Robby. Laughter.)

There is a point here and it is this: that Christ cannot be manifested
unless every member of His body is functioning together in a meeting. It
requires this. You can't muzzle the priesthood. The priesthood has to
function else Christ cannot be manifested. Consequently, we can put it this
way: that not only is it true that it takes the body to drink and eat of
Christ, but it is also true that it takes the body together, functioning, to
manifest Christ. It is not the responsibility of an individual member to
make Him known. It can't be done. The eye cannot reveal Him, neither the
hand nor the foot. It takes the whole body coming together to display Him.

THE MIND OF CHRIST: A CORPORATE DISCOVERY

But there is one other point, and it is what's on my heart to share with you
tonight. I'm going to read the first two passages of 1 Corinthians 12.
Listen to this: "Now concerning spiritual manifestations, brethren, I don't
want you to be ignorant. You know that when you used to be pagans, you were
led astray to dumb idols and you were led by them." Now lets just stop right
there. Somebody tell me what a dumb idol is. It's not an idol with a low IQ.
It's an idol that does not have the power of speech. It's a dumb idol. The
Corinthians in their past were following gods that did not have the power of
speech. They were mute. They were dumb.

Then Paul says, "Remember how you served dumb idols? By contrast, I make
known to you that if you speak by the Spirit of God . . .when you say
something as simple as, 'Jesus is Lord,' the Holy Spirit is speaking through
you."

Then he goes on and says, "And there are varieties of gifts, but it's the
same Spirit. There are varieties of ministries, but it's the same Lord. And
there are varieties of effects, but it's the same God who's working."
Notice: there are a variety of ways that God communicates, but it is the
same God who is doing all the speaking.

Consequently, the mind of Christ can only be made known through the body.
Jesus Christ has the power of speech. He is not a dumb idol. He speaks. And
when He speaks He reveals His mind. But He can't do this through an
individual. It takes the body. It takes the brothers and the sisters to make
known His mind. It takes the body to lay hold of His mind. So here again we'
re back to the corporate nature, the collective nature of the church. It
takes the body of Christ to reveal His mind.

I want to read another passage out of Corinthians to make this even plainer.
And I'm going to make this very practical because I think that if we keep it
abstract, we will not be helped at all. My burden is to make this as
practical as I can. Listen to this passage. You've heard it before. 1
Corinthians 2:9: "Eye has not seen." Notice, it's a single eye. A solo eye
has not seen. "Ear has not heard." An individual ear has not heard. "And it
has not entered into the heart of man." Notice the single heart. "What God
has prepared for those who love Him. But for us [plural], God has revealed
them through the Spirit, for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths
of God."

Now listen to this next verse. 1 Corinthians 2:16: "For who has known the
mind of the Lord that he should instruct Him?" Who has known the mind of the
Lord that he, the person that supposedly knows God's mind, should instruct
the Lord? Well, obviously, it's an absurd question. But notice the singular.
Who has known the mind of the Lord that he [singular, individual] may
instruct God? It's an absurd question. The answer is obvious. No individual
has God's mind whereby he can instruct the Lord. But then he makes this
remarkable statement. Brothers, listen to it.

"But we [the church] have the mind of Christ." We [corporate] own the mind
of Christ!

The mind of Christ is discoverable, brothers. Jesus Christ is not a dumb
idol. He has the power of speech. But the mind of Christ is a corporate
discovery. It is a corporate pursuit. The mind of Christ is not the property
of any individual Christian. It's the property of the church! That means
this. That if you're a brother or a sister, and you go to church every
Sunday and sit in a pew, listen to sermons, go home, and go to the Wednesday
night Bible study group, you do not have access to the mind of Christ! The
mind of Christ can only be manifested through a functioning body of
believers who are free to speak. And why? Because Jesus Christ makes His
mind known through the brothers and the sisters! It's only here in the
ekklesia, where there is a brotherhood and a sisterhood--and boy we need the
sisterhood to reveal the mind of Christ, don't we?--it is only here that
Christ makes known His mind. For it is a corporate discovery.

In fact, it is so corporate that sometimes we as individual Christians
cannot get clear on the Lord's will for us individually unless we are
connected to other brothers and sisters. I mean, how many times has it been
in your life where you needed the help of the body to make a major decision
in your life? Guess what, a lot of Christians don't have this. They don't
have it because they don't belong to a brotherhood or a sisterhood. They are
solo Christians going to a liturgy every Sunday. It's a tragedy.

THE LORD'S MIND -- A LIFE AND DEATH MATTER

I want to give you an illustration of this. You heard that there are 14
first-century styled churches represented in this room. I'm going to tell
you a story from one of them that is simply arresting. It really brought
this whole thing home to me about the critical issue of getting the mind of
Christ . . . of laying hold of the mind of Christ together even when it
comes to individual matters.

Early in one of the church's lives there was a brother who had just attached
himself to the church. A young man. And he was very confused as to what he
was to do concerning some old commitments he had made. One of them involved
going with a friend of his to take a missionary trip to another country.

As he was meeting with the brothers and sisters, he was having a lot of
turmoil about this. It became an issue for him. So what he did was this (and
I thought it showed great wisdom), he got together with the brothers. He
said, "Brothers, I'm not clear. I don't know what to do about this. I'm
torn." He was having a lot of pressure from home on this matter because he
still lived at home. So the brothers said, "Lets get together." There were
about 13 of them at the time, and they met together. I was not present. I
heard this secondhand.

They prayed. But the way they prayed was not typical. The brothers shared
first, and then they said, "Let's just wait on the Lord and inquire of His
mind." Fifteen, twenty minutes went by. The brothers opened their eyes, and
one of them spoke. He said to the brother in question, "You know, I don't
feel you're supposed to go on this trip."

As soon as he said that, all the brothers in the room chimed in. "Yeah, we
have a big check about this, brother. We've laid aside our own personal
biases. As best we can tell, you're not to go on that trip."

Well, the brother still wasn't fully clear. But he trusted the judgment of
the brothers. He submitted himself to their discernment. To his thinking, it
was pretty bad odds for all of them to be off, so he thought he would just
go ahead and trust them.

Listen to this. This is a true story, I kid you not. He was supposed to be
on a particular plane that took off two days later. He wasn't on it because
he submitted to the brothers. But his friend was on it still. That plane
crashed. Every person on that flight was killed. That is a true story.

Those brothers laid hold of the mind of Christ. And let me say this:
sometimes it becomes an issue of life and death. Not just individually, but
also spiritually in the church.

How can we continue as a people if we are not laying hold of His mind? It's
absolutely necessary. But know this: His mind has been given to us, and we
can tap into it. It is discoverable. But it takes a body. It takes every one
of us. Jesus Christ has the power of speech. And He makes that speech known
through His church.


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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:55:33 -0700
From: Dan Snyder <Dan * lsm>
Subject: [NTCP] Re: Every man a theologian

Amen Vanessa,

I think if we zero in on Acts 9:4-6 you'll see what I was referring to -
that may answer some of the confusion - or just add to it :)

You mentioned:
<< ...Head and body are NOT the same thing. >>
That's right.... but they are the same person! That "Me" in verse 4 is the
corporate Christ.

The Lord appeared to Paul directly as the Head... but He didn't open His
eyes directly... and He didn't instruct him directly as to what he must do.
He sent Paul to a member of the Body... on one hand that must have been very
humbling for Paul, but on the other hand he must have realized that Ananais
was part of the great "Me" (in verse 4). Even though it was though a member
of the Body it was still the Lord Jesus speaking to Paul in v. 17.

The Lord had introduced Paul to the corporate Christ. Wow!

(You can see Paul's own account in Acts 22:7-16)

So I guess it may be a question of humility. Are we willing (like Paul) to
let the Lord speak to us through the Body? Or are we so proud that we demand
He speak directly to us as the Head every time!

Your brother,

Dan


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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:13:51 EDT
From: TheologusCrucis * cs
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Every man a theologian

Hi, Vanessa!

I think that I may not have communicated my views very well judging from the
reaction expressed in your post.

I had written:

>>When I'm kissing my wife, I'm sure not
exactly rational -- I am feeling and experiencing. You cannot be lost in
experience and intellectually be analyzing it at the same time.<<

You replied:

>>Ooh, husband and I must be real weirdoes, for we intellectually analyze
everything. We talk a lot since he's been sick and jobless!<<

I've never been able to pull that one off myself -- to kiss and
intellectually discuss it at the same time! :) My analogy only goes so far,
Vanessa, before it breaks down or doesn't apply. I was only trying to say
that in that exact moment of experience, I am not talking, I am not
analyzing, I am simply feeling -- joy, love, passion, and pleasure.

I had written:

>>On the other hand, what authority determines interpretation?<<

You replied:

>>The authority that determines interpretation is history... one must know
the history of the time and people the Bible was written for, for if we
read it thinking as people in the 21st century, forget it, you can't
understand much. ALso, one must know the exact uses of the words in greek
(or hebrew) in the time it was written, to determine what it means. As a
spanish-english translator, I know how hard it is to transmit the exact
meaning of a non-technical writing. For example, in the original,
presbiteros, elder, simply meant THE OLDEST PEOPLE IN THE GROUP. How did
that meaning become other meanings? I don't know and don't really care,
for any meaning added after Paul expressed HIS intended meaning is
worthless.<<

I'm fairly well aquatinted with the historical/grammatical approach to Bible
interpretation. I remember my professor saying that hermeneutics was such a
wonderful science.... And I agree with you, Vanessa -- it is important for
context to understand history and language. But what about poor
interpretations that come from folks that use the same method? Most
Dispensationalists use the Protestant method of interpretation, and I
disagree with their interpretation.

By what authority is our disagreement then to be resolved?

>>ANother thing, is that an interpretation that conflicts with anything else
the Bible says, you already know is wrong. The Bible works ALL together,
and doctrines based on 1-2 verses, and which forgte the rest of the Bible
are very dangerous. Dozens of denominations have been born through people
who base their whole christian life on 1-2 verses that they happen to
love.<<

Scripture interprets Scripture -- another foundational block in Protestant
interpretation. And, incidentally, another point that I agree with you about.
But again, what happens when those who use the same methods disagree, when
the same Scriptures are used to support opposing arguments?

I had written:

>>I know that faith comes from hearing. Hearing demands understanding.<<

You replied:

>>From hearing who? I NEVER have believed a word I heard from a human. MY
faith comes from reading the Bible and praying to God that HE explain it
to me. From hearing other humans, my heart always cries out 'hypocrite'<<

Then, dear Vanessa, you are contradicting Scripture. It is the Gospel message
that is the power of salvation to those who believe! Faith comes from hearing
that message proclaimed thru the mouth of a preacher -- it is thru the
foolishness of preaching that God has ordained the message to get out. The
Bible, Vanessa, was never meant to be read individually and in private in a
library. Scripture was preached and spoken in the assembly, among the Saints
on Sunday mornings at sunrise!

It wasn't until the printing press that reading became a completely
individualistic activity, cut off from the interaction of a community. This
isn't meant to question your salvation! I'm just saying that God loved you
enough for you to come to Him apart from His ordained means. Sometimes the
church doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

I had written:

>>Intellect is to far to abstract.<<

You replied:

>>For most people... God gave some of us a better ability with the intellect
that anything else. I understood college math before I understood how
people think, feel or act!! I always saw people's actions as
incomprehensible and hipocritical. I didn't learn to lie to protect myself
until I was 12-13! Thankfully, God took that ability away just a couple of
years later... whcih means I sometimes get in trouble for always saying
the truth while moving in a society based on lies (more than in the USA).
Intellect is the ONLY safe thing I had as a child! And the first thing God
explained to me through the Bible was science... quantum physics and such
fit in quite well with the bible, except that the only people who
understand it are all university professors most trained to be atheists!
When God explained science to me, that is when the ONLY real block for my
faith was removed. And when Isaac Newton foudn the laws of physics, he did
so because his intellect told him that God is a God of laws, so that He
would have set up laws for the way the universe moves and exists. He
looked for them to prove that God exists!!<<

OK. But not for most people anymore, Vanessa. Rationalism was seriously
wounded in WW I and then mortally wounded when the US dropped the bomb on a
civilian target in WW II. It is interesting -- Christ and Christianity came
far before the Enlightenment -- yet we interpret the Scripture almost
exclusively thru an enlightenment lenses. Hermeneutics as the SCIENCE of
biblical interpretation. Postmodernism has come, Vanessa, and if you have a
copy of "Evidence that Demands a Verdict," you can pretty much toss it as a
tool of effectively communicating to an American's presuppositions....

And I agree with you -- the new science, which not only contradicts Newton's
"physics" as well as upending Einstein's ideas, do fit in well with God and
creation. God has given each of us unique personalities. Some are primarily
rational, others are primarily intuitive.

You concluded:

>>And I think existentialism is a philosophy that has nothing to do with
God. It is completely humanitarian.<<

I dunno. In on sense your right, existentialism with a capitol "E" does come
from a wide variety. Jaspers, Sartre (Spelling?) were secular. But the father
of Extentialism, however, was the Danish Kirkeragard (spelling for sure!),
who was a very committed Christian.

All I am trying to say, Vanessa, is what David and Sam are saying, each in
their own way -- we must live by faith and worship God both with our
intellect and with our emotions. It isn't one or the other. Jesus as my
boyfriend OR just "head" knowledge. There is an agreement, a joining together
of the intellectual and the emotional moment by moment, whether studying or
weeping before Him as His love crashes over us.

Hey, I'm praying for your husband and for your father. May God's will be
done! I've enjoyed this dialogue, and pray that "from his glorious, unlimited
resources he will give you mighty inner strength thru his Holy Spirit. And I
pray that Christ will be more and more at home in your heart as you trust in
him. May your roots go down deep into the soil of God's marvelous love. And
may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide,
how long, how high, and how deep his love really is. May you experience the
love of Christ, though it is so great you will never understand it. Then you
will be filled with the fullness of life and power that comes from God." Eph.
3:16-19 NLT

TC


End of New Testament Church Planting Digest V2 #123

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