New Testament Church Proliferation Digest

Spreading the Gospel via House Churches

NT Church Proliferation Digest Sunday, August 25 2002 Volume 02 : Number 150
Re: [NTCP] Simple plea
Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted
Re: [NTCP] What are apostles?
Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted
Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted
Re: [NTCP] What are apostles? Women working for God in apostolic function
Re: [NTCP] What are apostles?
Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 08:04:59 EDT
From: Steffasong * aol
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Simple plea
In a message dated 08/24/2002 11:35:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JAMESRUTZ * cs writes:
> Somebody change the subject.
> Jim Rutz
> Colorado Springs

Yes. Perhaps we can move away from our discussion of apostles and the church
as 'family' for a moment.

How about the other metaphors of the church Paul uses in Ephesians.
Let's talk about the church as the BODY of Christ.

What does it mean to be interdependant, i.e., sharing the 'life flow' of the
blood of the Lamb?

What does it mean in the practical sense, and how do we foster this
interdependance as we lay the foundations of the Gospel in every church

How then, is this interdependance maintained, and how can we best serve this
mission without creating a new law?

Blessings, in the Lamb,
Stephanie Bennett

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 07:59:38 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted

When we listen to Jesus, He Himself never said that He was God, but
presented Himself as the Son of God. Jesus His position is also lower than
the Only One thru God, and had a creation, while God had no beginning and no
end. God the Father declares: Mat 3:17 And listen! A voice [comes] out of
the heavens, saying, "This is My Son-the Beloved-in whom I am well-pleased!"
(+John 8: 42; 14:28; 20: 17; 1 Cor 11: 3; 15: 28; Col 1: 15; Rev 3: 14; 19:
Joh 17:3 And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only
true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
God did not send Himself, but it was His Son who wanted to give His live for

Marcus Ampe

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:51:24 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] What are apostles?

Mike, in you last words we perhaps can find the answer how we are going to
recognise an appointed teacher or apostle. Apostolate did not finish with
the Greek Christian writers from the late 1st & 2nd centuries. The history of
Christianity saw various sects that sought to re-establish the life and
discipline of the primitive church. In the 12th century, here in Flanders,
the Apostolici who condemned marriage, the eating of meat, infant baptism,
priestly power etc., found that following the task given to the hearers of
God His Words, was a calling given to them by the Grace of the Lord. Through
the centuries to follow these preachers of the Gospel had to endure a lot,
and by denouncing the doctrine that bishops represent a direct,
uninterrupted line of descent from the apostle of Jesus Christ, they
received a declaration of 'war'. During the Protestant Reformation, many of
the doctrines of the very Apostolici were espoused by the Anabaptists,
Baptists and started to germinate again in smaller home church movements in
the 20th century. May be it where just those persons who had no luck in
real life or had to struggle with illnesses and other unpleasant tidings,
whose eyes were opened and who saw the reason why they were here on earth.
Being in a scrape, or having hard times made them more conscious about the
Love of God and their blessing. Today, for us it helps to see all the
troubles and the Force which is growing out of it. In that small group of
believers who just want to keep to what the scriptures says, we can find the
real apostles of this time.
Bless you.
Yours sincerely,
Marcus Ampe

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:46:13 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted

When Unitarians are those who would say that God presents himself in three
modes (or disguises) than you could say there goes something wrong in there
thinking. And in case they did such things to you, you may be shure that God
stood not behind them. As years passed by it looked so, because it pays off.
Doctrines and teaching are very close to each other. We have to be so alert
not to be fooled by false doctrines. A lot of people were destroyed for lack
of knowledge and for living , working, teaching against the knowledge (which
they rejected). We can only hope that we do not forget the law of God and
that we stay learning about the truth which can only be found in the Bible.
Others can be there to help us. It is this caring, hoping and blessing of
each other who is on his or her quest, that at the long end shall open our
eyes on the moment God finds the time ready. We have therefore to be pacient
and avoid those teachers who do no live up to what they are preaching.
Bless you.
Yours sincerely,
Marcus Ampe

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:23:42 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted

My son and I are as one, but I must say he has also a lot off differences
and he is not me. Often when you meet a person you can see his/her mother
/father in that person, and often people say "that is just him/her".
Naturally being without any fault (not as all who came after Adam and Eve),
Jesus being the first born was as a second image of God. But are we not all
created after the image of God? On a lot of occasions I meet people as well
in my family as under my friends, who think the same as me, but have not my
spirit. My thinking does not consist out of a person. Even so was it not a
person coming over Jesus or over the apostles."The Spirit of God was the
first Mover; He moved upon the face of the waters - He moved upon the face
of the deep, " Gen 1:2 and the earth being without form and empty, and
darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moving gently on the
face of the waters,

It is God who brings us Light, by His Force. The Spirit is as a working
force, PowerStation, or entity. It is neither an anima mundi or soul of the
world. John 3:8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His
voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is
everyone having been generated from the Spirit.
Jesus also not proclaims to be a or the Spirit: Luc 24:39 See My hands and
My feet, that I am He? Feel Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh
and bones, as you see Me having.

Rom 1:4 who was marked out the Son of God in power, according to the Spirit
of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord;
Jesus pours His Spirit over those who want to follow Him in His footsteps
(Acts 2: 17-18), but this does not mean that we Christians became a material
part of Jesus, though we became a part of Christ and His Church.
Bless you.
Yours sincerely,
Marcus Ampe

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:08:37 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] What are apostles? Women working for God in apostolic function

1Co 9:5 Don't we have the right to take our wives along with us like the
other apostles, the Lord's brothers, and Cephas do?
Shurly there were women in function. And they were accepted as co workers
for Christ. As well were they treted with full respect and found equal to
man. Both men and women may prophesy but see Paul's restrictions in
1Corinthians 11, 14; 1Timothy 2
Gal 3:28 There are neither Jews nor Greeks, slaves nor free people, males
nor females. You are all the same in Christ Jesus.
Act 18:2-3: 2 In Corinth he met a Jewish man named Aquila and his wife
Priscilla. Aquila had been born in Pontus, and they had recently come from
Italy because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to
visit them, 3 and because they made tents for a living as he did, he stayed
with them and they worked together.
Act 18:26 He (the Jew Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When
Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him home with them and explained
God's way to him more accurately.
Paul speeks about brothers and sisters who excel in the work they do for
the Lord. (1Co 15:58 ) Rom 16:1-3: 1 With this letter I'm introducing
Phoebe to you. She is our sister in the Christian faith and a deacon of the
church in the city of Cenchrea. 2 Give her a Christian welcome that shows
you are God's holy people. Provide her with anything she may need, because
she has provided help to many people, including me. 3 Greet Prisca and
Aquila, my coworkers in the service of Christ Jesus.
Rom 16:12 Greet Tryphaena and Tryphosa, who have worked hard for the Lord.
From his letter to Timotheus we learn that a bisshop is allowed to have one
wife. (1Ti 3:2) It even does not appear to have been any part of the
apostle's design to prohibit second marriages. At that time polygamy was in
use, so it implicated that a priest could not have two wives at once. (Lev
21:13-14: 13 "The anointed priest must marry a virgin. 14 He must never
marry a widow, a divorced woman, a woman who has lost her virginity, or a
prostitute. He may only marry a virgin from his own people.) The apostle,
priest or person working for God can have children. Tit 1:6 A spiritual
leader must have a good reputation. He must have only one wife and have
children who are believers. His children shouldn't be known for having wild
lifestyles or being rebellious.

Having children of your own is only possible by the contact of the two
different sexes, so those who preach can have descent sex.
For to day it becomes even more interesting to see women apostles: Act 2:17
'In the last days, God says, I will pour my Spirit on everyone. Your sons
and daughters will speak what God has revealed. Your young men will see
visions. Your old men will dream dreams.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will
pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream
Act 2:18 In those days I will pour my Spirit on my servants, on both men
and women. They will speak what God has revealed.
Male nor female, is excluded from sharing in the gifts and graces of the
Divine Spirit./ 18 And in those days I will pour my Pneuma upon my male
slaves and female slaves, and they will prophesy. / 18 And on my servants
and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they
shall prophesy:
Yours sincerely,
Marcus Ampe

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:08:50 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] What are apostles?

Hollidaytime gives reactions late.
Ephesians 4:11 And, indeed, he gave these as gifts: apostles, prophets,
evangelisers, shepherds and teachers.

Ephesians 4:12 And these for the purpose of reorganizing the Saints for the
work of servants. For the purpose of building up the Body of Christ
Among the Jews the high priest was considered to be also the apostle of God;
and it is in conformity to this notion that the apostle speaks. And he
exhorts the Hebrews to consider Jesus Christ to be both their High Priest
and Apostle; and to expect these offices to be henceforth fulfilled by him.

The apostolos was not a mere messenger, but a delegate or representative of
the person who sent him. Apostoloi were envoys sent out by the patriarchate
in Jerusalem to collect the sacred tribute from the Jews of the Dispersion.
The apostle is the shepherd who has the task to take care of his flock on
all means. On earth it is this one to become an overseer of the preparatory
work for the growing Church. A worker for Christ in the love of God, giving
him or her self to Jehovah or Yahweh the Only One God . All those who are
called should take up their duties as teachers for the coming Kingdom of

Mat 28:19- 20 So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Teach them to observe everything I commanded you. And, look! I am with you
apostles until the consummation of the Age." / 20 Teaching them to observe
all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always,
even unto the end of the world.

Teach them to observe everything I commanded you. And, look! I am with you
[apostles] until the consummation of the Age." [Daniel 9:26, 27)
Tit 1:1 From Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I was
sent to lead God's chosen people to faith and to the knowledge of the truth
that leads to a godly life.
Heb 3:1-2: Therefore, holy brothers [and sisters], sharers of [the]
heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our
profession-Christ Jesus- being faithful to the One having appointed Him, as
also Moses [was] in all his house.
John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you*. Just as the Father
has sent Me, _I_ also send you*."
Mar 3:14 He appointed twelve whom he called apostles. They were to
accompany him and to be sent out by him to spread the Good News.
Mar 6:7 He called the twelve apostles, sent them out two by two, and gave
them authority over evil spirits.
In the New Covenant people from any origin can become chosen by the Father
and entrusted with a divine calling to serve the Lord. These called out ones
or the Ecclesia or Church are not only elected or chosen to become a
Christian. Real Christians have to follow Jesus Christ the Savoir and may
not neglect their responsibility to make disciples, teaching them to
observe all that Christ commanded to His first disciples.
2Ti 2:2 You've heard my message, and it's been confirmed by many witnesses.
Entrust this message to faithful individuals who will be competent to teach
Every Christian can be called to build up the Church of God and to fulfil
his duties as a preacher of the Gospel of Good News, being an evangelical
pastor or an apostle. The only problem for the send out person who feels to
have the authority of Jesus to do the task
of apostolate or missioning is that by calling themselves apostles they take
up a very high responsibility. In this age how can be shure to feel this
calling or how are we going to get to know that the messenger before us is
really chosen by God to speak for Him to us. At the time of the chosen
twelve Paul claimed himself to be an apostle on the ground that he had seen
the Lord and received a commission directly from Him. The other disciples of
Jesus could react straight ahead against an unlawful using of the word
Apostle of Christ. Today who is going to say one or the other is really
appointed to this task?

Bless you.
Yours sincerely,
Marcus Ampe

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:36:12 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe *>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Getting aquuainted

Each of us can thus have such three distinct forms of existance but same
personship. But you can also turn it around: our children, familly can
represent us and speak for us. Jesus came to the earth to represent His
Father and to come out for Him whome the humankind had deserted. Christ is
the Mediator,as before Him the Profets where the spokesman of God.
Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All
authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy

Does this text really says we have to be baptized under the only one
person with three different forms? It even does not say they are equal and
even less that they are identical. Yes Jesus can have His equal in His
father, they can have similarities but they are not on the same level, and
at moments even not of the same form. Jesus took at one moment a human form,
Jesus radiates all the Power of God. He was and is Godly, but He is not
God. The Son of God let His Father shine through His activities and
speaking. In the brightness of His glory, the effulgence we see the
emanation of the Father. He was belonging to the same Father as ours. As us
we could say He also is the property of God. Jesus has even the quality or
the attributes of God. A breath of the power of God, and a pure emanation
(apaugasma) of the glory (doxes) of the AlmightyÖ a reflection of eternal
life, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.
Heb 1:3 who being [the] outshining of His glory and [the] exact expression
of His essence, and sustaining all the [things] by the word of His power,
having Himself made by Himself a purification [or, purgation] of our sins,
sat down at [the] right hand of the Majesty on high, / 3 The Son is the
very reflection of His glory and the very imprint of His substance. The Son
upholds the Universe by his powerful declaration. After the Son made a
cleansing of the sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in
exalted places. / 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express
image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when
he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty
on high;

Heb 1:4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a
more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "_You_ are My Son,
today _I_ have begotten You?" and again, "_I_ will be to Him for a father,
and _He_ will be to Me for a Son? / 5 For to which one of the angels did
The God say, ìYou are my Son. Today I have given birth to youî? And also,
ìI shall be a Father to him, and he will be a Son to meî?
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this
day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall
be to me a Son?"

To sit next to eachother as one and the same person does not like to work
very well.?(Psalms 110:1 ) Regarding which one of the angels has The God
ever said: ìSit you at my right hand until I place your enemies as your
footstoolî? (Hebrews 1:13) [Psalm 2:7; 2Sam 7:14; 1Chron 17:13]
1 Corinthians 15:25 For it is a necessity that Christ reign until that time
The God should put all of Christís enemies under his feet.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the
glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Marcus Ampe


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