New Testament Church Proliferation Digest


Spreading the Gospel via House Churches



NT Church Proliferation Digest Monday, September 2 2002 Volume 02 : Number 156
[NTCP] Question - The Man Of Peace
[NTCP] Re: Changing the Topic
[NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god
Re: [NTCP] RE: Church in Trinidad
Re: [NTCP] RE: Church in Trinidad
RE: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god
Re: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god
RE: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god
Re: [NTCP] Question - The Man Of Peace
Re: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god
[NTCP] Arian Heresy

Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:04:53 -0400
From: Bruce P Gordon <b-egordon * juno>
Subject: [NTCP] Question - The Man Of Peace

Dear Bros & Srs, I would like to
throw out a question...

I have read & heard folks talking
about how the Luke 10 approach to
NTCP works. In particular, praying for
and looking for the man of peace.
Question...

Can anyone share some experiences
with how this has worked in a suburban
context?

I live in a quiet New England
suburb of Hartford, CT.
There's great abundance of
* material prosperity
* spiritual emptiness
* Mainline & RC churches

The Lord has burdened me for
my neighborhood & town,
but I feel like I could benefit
from some examples of how this
has worked in the type of context
I work in.

Thanks, Bruce


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Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:04:06 -0400
From: Marti Grahl <nestmom * nestmom>
Subject: [NTCP] Re: Changing the Topic

At 09:53 AM 8/31/02 -0500, NT Church Proliferation Digest wrote:
>If *you* do not want to read the discussion people are having, why not
>simply note the thread header, and if it pops up "Apostles ...," "Women
>...," or whatever, just hit the delete button? Easy as that. That way you
>can go on to what you find more interesting, and the rest of us engaged in
>what we consider to be a profitable discussion can do the same. A win/win
>situation. Okay?

Absolutely okay with me! I, for one, have not been reading the thread
diligently... but I do skim the posts, and occasionally find myself reading
one or two posts more closely.

I also like to think that I'm mentally coherent enough to handle more than
one thread at a time, if need be. Of course, with my four girls, that's
debatable sometimes! ;-)
Marti
Wife to Chris, and mom to Emilee, Rachel, Katie, and Becky
Smithsburg, MD
"Unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as unquestioned answers"


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Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:07:29 +0200
From: "Ampe Pronk" <marcusampe * tiscalinet.be>
Subject: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god

Dear Konfused Keith,
Gen 17:1-4: 1 And when Abram was ninety nine years old, Jehovah appeared to
Abram and said to him, I am the Almighty God! Walk before me and be perfect;
2 and I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you
very much. 3 And Abram fell on his face. And God spoke with him, saying, 4
As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you,

First there is the believe in a god and then comes a not confusing One God.
Then comes not only an assuming that He can communicate with us.and that in
the history He has entrusted His Creation with the story of the recovery of
divine supremacy over mankind. We get the acceptance that what God said to
Abraham, that He will show us, make us, bless us and make Abraham his name
great. The divine oath of promise made to Abraham makes the basis also for
the covenant we are able to receive through the fathers of the faithful.
Exo 6:3-4: 3 And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God
Almighty, and by My name JEHOVAH I have not been known to them. 4 And I
also established My covenant with them to give to them the land of Canaan,
the land of their travels, in which they abode.
The reconciliation by restitution will not come as a result of the Law
Covenant but by grace under the terms of the New Covenant, which must be
believed in, accepted and complied with by all who would benefit by it.
Gal 3:8 And the holy Writings, seeing before the event that God would give
the Gentiles righteousness by faith, gave the good news before to Abraham,
saying, In you will all the nations have a blessing.
When we believe in this Abrahamic covenant and accept that Jesus came to
reconfirm it (Rom 15: 8) are we able to see the longings Jesus projected.
When we take the Greek Scriptures or New Testament as a guide we even get to
know that the land belongs to Jesus. Greater still, He wants to share it
with His followers.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham were the undertakings given, and to his seed. He
says not, And to seeds, as of a great number; but as of one, he says, And to
your seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:22 However, the holy Writings have put all things under sin, so that
that for which God gave the undertaking, based on faith in Jesus Christ,
might be given to those who have such faith.

In case we accept that Jesus Christ is genuine, we have to follow His words
and have to understand that, born as a Jew, He also made references to the
Book of God. He knew it very well and accepted it to be the Word of God.
When Christ speaks of the Son of Man He means a son of somebody, and not
that the Son is that Man. He knew that He was the chosen ambassador, the
Mediator, the commissioned agent, but although the Spirit of Yahweh or
Jehovah, rested on Him, in His knowledge of God He never declared Himself to
be God.
He, Jesus Christ was humble enough to wash the feet of His disciples, but
also to show them how they had to behave and how to honour not Him, but God
who stayed with Him. Even when he told Satan to get in his proper place, he
did not claim to be worshipped.
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, Go, Satan! For it has been written: "You
shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve Him only."
Do you believe that God can not be tempted? Here we read that Christ was
been tempted. Jesus felt the temptation and in His life had a few moments
that He felt weak or in nead of help from His Father. But Jesus kept clean
and worshipping His Father. He had no problems at all about His believes and
about the Laws given by his Father to all of us: Deu 6:13-25: 13 You shall
fear Jehovah your God, and you shall serve Him, and you shall swear by His
name. 14 You shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the peoples who
are around you, 15 for Jehovah your God is a jealous God in your midst,
lest the anger of Jehovah your God burn against you, and He destroy you from
off the face of the earth. 16 You shall not test Jehovah your God as you
tested Him in Massah. 17 Keeping you shall keep the commands of Jehovah
your God, and His testimonies, and His statutes which He has commanded you.
.. :24 And Jehovah commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Jehovah
our God for our good forever, to keep us alive, as today. 25 And it shall
be righteousness for us when we take heed to do all this commandment before
Jehovah our God, as He has commanded us.

Act 10:34 -41: And opening his mouth, Peter said, Truly I see that God is
not a respecter of faces, 35 but in every nation the one fearing Him and
working righteousness is acceptable to Him. 36 The Word which He sent to
the sons of Israel, preaching the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, this
One is Lord of all. 37 You know the thing that happened throughout all
Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed, 38
Jesus the One from Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and
with power, who went about doing good, and healing all those having been
oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses
of all things which He did, both in the country of the Jews, and in
Jerusalem. They did away with Him, hanging Him on a tree. 40 God raised up
this One the third day and gave to Him to become visible; 41 not to all the
people, but to witnesses, the ones having been before hand-picked by God, to
us who ate and drank with Him after His rising again from the dead.
The Master did knew His place and did not higher Himself because of His
godly function, having been appointed a place for God his People Israel. It
took some time before the apostles knew His place and their place in this
confusing wheel-work. As time went by, the disciples of Jesus got to know
the position of Jesus as Messiah better.
Paul considered himself a slave of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated
to the gospel of God, not to the Word of Christ. ( Rom 1:1 ) Placing himself
as an adapt follower of Christ he keeps to his Jewish believes to that which
God, Jehovah promised before through His prophets in the holy Scriptures.
(Rom 1:2) He writes about the Son of God and not about a personalisation of
God coming to the earth.
Rom 1:3-5 "... concerning His Son who came of the seed of David according to
flesh, 4 who was marked out the Son of God in power, according to the
Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord;
5 by whom we received grace and apostleship to obedience of faith among all
the nations, for His name's sake, "
Mat 16:16-17: And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Christ, the Son
of the living God. And answering, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you,
Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My
Father in Heaven.
Act 2:22 - 24: 22 Men, Israelites, hear these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a
Man from God, having been approved among you by works of power and wonders
and miraculous signs, which God did through Him in your midst, as you
yourselves also know, 23 this One given to you by the before-determined
purpose and foreknowledge of God, you having taken by lawless hands, having
crucified Him, you killed Him. 24 But God raised Him up, loosing the throes
of death, because it was not possible for Him to be held by it.
1Th 1:9-10: 9 For they themselves announce concerning us what kind of
entrance we have to you, and how you had turned to God from the idols, to
serve the true and living God, 10 and to await His Son from Heaven, whom He
raised from the dead, Jesus, the One delivering us from the coming wrath.
Their hero, the Jew they followed has become the central figure of
Christianity. Jesus the King of Israel, is called the Lord's Anointed,
linking Him with Israel's Kings.
John, the apostle writes in 17: 3 "And this is life eternal, that they may
know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Would
we say about someone that we know him personally under one name but also
under another person? When it is a split person or a schizophrenic yes, but
with somebody who is perfect. Does perfectness not include the unity of its
being?
What would it say about the person his or her character when he or she would
talk about him/her self in two persons? Would you call that a psychic
healthy person?
It is Jesus who spoke, raising his eyes heavenward: ìFather, the hour has
come. Glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify You"
The Sonís anxiety to glorify the Father is most marked when, realizing he
was approaching his dying agony, he exclaimed "Now is my soul troubled; and
what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour? Father glorify thy name."
Clearly it is not someone asking to His own self to let Himself being
glorified.John 12:27 Now my soul is troubled, {Psalm 6:3} and what should I
say? Father, save me from this hour! However, for this reason I have come to
this hour.
John 12:28 Father, glorify Your Name!î {Psalm 86:12} Then, a voice came
out of the Sky: ìI have glorified my Name, and shall glorify it again!
The beauty about Christ His suffering for all the punishment which is due
to our sins, is that He was here on earth as an ordinary human being and
felt as a man. He also was stricken with the great fear of the curse of God.
As the hour approaches Jesus nervous tension increased with the knowledge he
was going to die, and that torturously. But He knew that God was never going
to die. He knew the Hebrew scripture and talk a lot about His Father, about
who He knew, that the man He called to be His Father was never going to die.
Jesus also cries and prays, and desires to be released: yet nonetheless he
prefers the will and glory of his Father before all things, and his Father
allows this obedience even from heaven. He does give His life in the hands
of His Father. When He would put it in His own hand, being God, He would not
have to worry, because then He knew that whatever happened He was the person
who had everything under control and had all the power. Because it is only
God who has all the power. Shure, we can imagine that God His mind can not
be troubled! But Jesus tells us that also His soul can be troubled: Or,
distressed, in turmoil. Jesus uses the language of # Psalm 6:3. [# Matthew
26:38; Mark 14:34]
God went with Christ as He also goes with us (Deu 20:4), but being part of
Christ and of His Church does not makes us as being God. The Messiah and we
are blessed by the Only One Thru God. This Saviour is not God but from God,
sent to us by our Father.
Rom 9:5 of whom [are] the fathers and out of whom [is] the Christ [or, the
Messiah] (the [ancestral descent] according to [the] flesh), the One being
over all God blessed into the ages [fig., forever]! So be it! / whose are
the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to flesh, He being God
over all, blessed forever. Though Christ was anointed by YHWH and received
the power over all, this has not mad Him God, the person or the Spirit.
Romans 9:5 tells us about our fathers; the patriarchs, priests, and
prophets, a most illustrious ancestry,of whom as concerning the flesh; from
whom, as to his human nature, Christ descended.
Our Redeemer is divine and exists now as well as God is and has been with
us, but Jesus proclaims no where to be God, Jehovah or Yahweh. He never does
or say we have to pray to Him, but clearly indicates that we have to pray
only to God.
Does our unity with Christ makes A Christ of us all? (Rom 12:5 So we,
though we are a number of persons, are one body in Christ, and are dependent
on one another; ) Together Christians form a Church, wherein the many are
one body in Christ, and each one members of one another. Nobody would say of
himself to be The Church . He can be part of the Church but does not
personalise the Church.

John 10:34 -37: 34 Jesus answered them, Has it not been written in your Law,
"I said, you are gods"? (Psa. 82:6) 35 If He called those gods with whom
the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken, 36 do you say of
Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You blaspheme,
because I said, I am Son of God? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father,
do not believe Me.

John 5:25-28: 25 Truly, truly, I say to you that an hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones
hearing will live. 26 For even as the Father has life in Himself, so He
gave also to the Son to have life in Himself. 27 And He also gave authority
to Him to execute judgment, for He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at
this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His
voice.
As Christians we can have a creed: "For if through the offence of one many
be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is] by one
man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.--And such were some of you: but
ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of
the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Jesus spoke about His Father as the One and Only (John 17: 3) and Paul
assured us that for thru Christians there can be only one God (1 Cor 8: 5-6)
John 16:26-28: 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not tell
you that I will petition the Father about you; 27 for the Father Himself
loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came out from
God. 28 I came out from the Father and have come into the world; I leave
the world again and go to the Father.
As a Christian I try to observe all things, whatever Christ commanded to His
disciples, who wrote it down for us so that we could know what Jesus our
Saviour wanted us to do. (Mat 28:20)
I try to have a healthy fear for Jehovah your God; which we as Christians or
believers have to serve Him (Deu 10:20 )
I do not deny the great work Jesus has done for us. I do accept Christ as my
Saviour but it is to God, our Creator that I send my praise. Yes for me are
Christos Jesus and Jehovah (or Yahweh) two entities of which there can only
be one God. It is YWHW who shall be my God, who has done for me these great
and fearful things which our and your eyes hopefully have seen. (Deu 10:21)
Nah 1:2 God is jealous, and Jehovah is avenging, Jehovah is avenging and is
a possessor of wrath. Jehovah takes vengeance against His foes, and He keeps
wrath against His enemies.
Let us therefore be aware that for even if some are called gods, either in
the heavens or on the earth; (even as there are many gods, and many lords);
that to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for
Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.
For me there is Only One person which I can accept as the God. There may be
other who are like (a) god but I shall not bow to them, and I shall not
serve them. Because I do hope to have found the one who has created all.
This ONE is called YHWH. For me He is Jehovah our God, a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third and on the fourth
generation, to those that hate Him. (Exo 20:5)

That God Almighty may bless us and make us fruitful, and add to us; and may
us become an assembly of nations.
And may He give to us the blessing of Abraham, to you , me, and to our seed
with you, for us to possess the land of our travels, which God gave to
Abraham. (Gen 28:3-4)
Yours sincerely,
Marcus Ampe


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Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:01:04 -0400
From: forwarded <forwarded * homechurch>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] RE: Church in Trinidad

From: "Paul Hudson Jr." <Linkh * mcdowell.main.nc.us>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:05:07 -0400

> I am not sure how to proceed next concerning that home.
>
> Any thoughts or advice from anyone.

Hi brother,

It is an encouragement to read about the work going on in Trinidad, even
if problems arise. One issue I was thinking about recently was this-- the
issue of the person hosting the house church 'owning' it or exercising
undue control.

Occasionally, I see someone assert that Aquilla and Priscilla, Gaius and
Nympha were 'pastors' because they hosted house churches. I doubt being
host made someone a 'pastor' in the early church. Elders should be given
to hospitality, and therefore willing to host. But someone not qualified
to be an overseer, or not gifted as a sheep-tender may have a really
great house suitable for meetings. Some believe that richer Christians
with nicer homes may have opened them up for meetings.

It takes a lot of grace and maturity for the host of a house church not
to try to subtley use his position as host in decision-making, etc. One
thing that might help with this women, after things settle down, is to
have their family meet with the workers in the home of another Christian
family. I don't know if this would really solve anything, frankly, but at
least she couldn't kick you out of someone else's house. If the situation
is resolved, and meetings tart up, rotating meetings between her house
and another families house could make it less likely for her to take over
because the meeting is at her house.

A verse does come to mind-- the one about the 12 apostles being
instructed to shake off the dust of their feet if a city or home would
not receive them. Hopefully, though, this woman will come around. I doubt
the man of the house disagreed with what you said, guessing based on what
you said.

Meeting with this woman in another person's home won't take care of her
heart issue. It sounds like she really needs to repent and be open to
correction.

My wife and I have been taking some 'teaching parent' courses for the
work with children we are getting ready to do. What we will do is teach
youths certain behavior skills in our group home to help them improve
their behavior. One bit of education terminology I heard at lot about
this week was 'pre-teaching.'

If you or your co-workers are going to offer someone correction, you
might want to 'preteach' how to receive correction by going throughs ome
Proverbs about a wise man loving rebuke, etc, some lessons on humility,
etc? You could explain the proper attitude for receiving correction. This
is something I am thinking of as a teacher (occupation and spiritual
gifting.) The Lord may lead you or your co-workers to correct in such a
way that wouldn't allow time for this. But teaching on how to receive
correction before a problem arises might actually help prepare people to
be corrected in situations like this.

Anyway, that is some advice. I don't know if it fits the problem. God
bless you. Keep us posted on the work down there. Btw, how many people
are actively working with you in the evangelistic and discipleship
ministry?
Link Hudson


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Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 03:22:30 +0000
From: "David Jaggernauth" <abccom * hotmail>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] RE: Church in Trinidad

Link said:

>Anyway, that is some advice. I don't know if it fits the problem. God
>bless you. Keep us posted on the work down there. Btw, how many people
>are actively working with you in the evangelistic and discipleship
>ministry?

We have about six people as workers,the rest are not really involved in
going out yet. We may have an increase in the number of workers soon since a
friend of mine told me he wants to join us plus I recently met a gentleman
(who has been long in the faith) and is very disenchanted with the Church.
We had along talk and he expressed an interest in learning more about the
house church. He was very enthused by what I was telling him. I hope I can
get him to work with us since I need older more experienced people in our
group.

At this moment we are still trying to figure out exactly how the House
Church meetings should really be expressed. We have been under attack
lately.Since that incident at that home, one of the couples that work with
us had a serious dispute and the husband almost left he made up his mind
that he would(he didnt,we counselled them and every thing worked out). We
suspected that the woman at that house might have been a practioner of some
kind of witchcraft, she also tried to cause division between us and that
same brother. If that wasnt bad enough,my wife and I had some problems as
well very recently (it was very unusual),another of the brothers had his car
burglarised. Things has been a little trying lately.

We have identified two new homes where we intend to start meetings soon.
One of the homes has a very interesting story about how we ended up there.
My wife was robbed a few months ago whilst walking in the street. The police
called her recently to identify a suspect in the police station. When she
went there she identified the suspect as the person who robbed her.
Upon hearing his name she realised that he is related to me (although we
dont know each other). His father and my father are brothers (I didnt know
him because I'm not very close to that side of my family and havent seen
them in many years)He is only 17 yrs old.

Anyway,we didnt press charges but visited the home. They are very poor. The
mother abandoned the family when they were young and the father (my uncle)
works from Sat.to Sun. trying to earn a living tolook after them.This left
all the children at home unsupervised all week. The oldest brother (20yrs)
is in jail, this second one started running with a gang, the last brother
(about 15yrs) dropped out of school ( the father didnt even know this for
many months) and the last child,a girl, is still in school but is
unsupervised and is in danger of falling prey to some unscrupulous street
boys,the police officer who visited the home had to chase a young man away
from the house while he was there and warned the father to keep him away
from his daughter. We hope to do some work with this family, they come from
Hindu backgrounds but the girl attends a Church next door called a
"Spiritual Baptist" Church.

Many of you may not be famialr with this type of Church,it is unique to the
Caribbean. It is not a traditional Christian Church. It is a mixture of
Roman Catholism, African Shango and hinduism. It mixes witchcraft with
Christianity. It is very demonic,and sprang up amongst the african slaves
who wanted to adapt their customs with Christianity which was being
presented to them. They also use some aspects of hindu worship(i dont know
how that got into the mix), my wife was a hindu and she identified certain
practices they do that are identical to hindu practices. She said they are
worshipping the same "gods". I know a few people who were into it and got
saved. They had to undergo much deliverance after.

Anyway, we felt that this incident wasnt coincidental and believe we have
some work to do in the community where they live. It is a very poor
community.

We plan to visit them tommorrow and suggest starting a meeting at their
home. I pray God opens up this door for us. Even though we lost one home (at
the moment) we see two more opening up to us.

Please pray for this family for us.

Yours in Christ,

David Jaggernauth
Trinidad


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Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:43:38 +0200
From: "Keith Smith" <castillofuerte * airtel>
Subject: RE: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god

Dear Marcus,
I have read with care your post, and am surprised to find that you do not
even take the normal "oneness" line (Monarchical Modalism) but are in fact
teaching that Jesus is not God, a teaching owned by the Jehovah's witnesses.
The Bible teaches that in him (Jesus) dwelt the fullness of God in bodily
form. In John 1:1 we have the bold statement that the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. Only the JW's in their grammatically tortured version have
anything different. Who Jesus is, is of prime importance. In Him God and man
met. Jesus, fully God and fully man, came to satisfy a justice that only he
could satisfy. If we reject Jesus as God, we reject the gospel that Paul and
the apostles preached. Would Paul, a Jew, make himself a slave to anyone
other than God? Neither do I. I know that sometimes people find the
Trinitarian doctrine difficult to follow, but that doesn't make it wrong, it
only shows our human limitations.

Blessings
Keith


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Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 07:26:07 -0400
From: jferris <jferris154 * mac>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god

Keith Smith wrote:

>Dear Marcus,
>
>In Him God and man met. Jesus, fully God and fully man, came to satisfy a justice that only he could satisfy. If we reject Jesus as God, we reject the gospel that Paul and the apostles preached. Would Paul, a Jew, make himself a slave to anyone other than God?
>
Dear Marcus & Keith,

Perhaps even more importantly for the substance of our faith is the fact
that, ONLY A NEW BIRTH WHICH RESULTS FROM THE IMPLANTATION OF A DIVINE
SEED HAS THE POWER TO MAKE US PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE. "A SLAVE
HAS NO PERMANENT PLACE IN THE FAMILY, BUT A SON IS PART OF IT FOREVER."
John 8:35
JESUS IS THAT SON; JESUS IS THAT SEED.

Yours in Christ,

Jay


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Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 07:27:48 -0400
From: "Richard Wright" <wright47 * sc.rr>
Subject: RE: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god

Amen Keith. In order to escape our just judgment we needed to be
transferred from the lineage of "the first Adam" to that of "the Last
Adam".

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown
in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in
weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a
natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the
last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46ÝHowbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is
natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord
from heaven.

Blessings,

Dick
Phil.3:12-14


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Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 08:03:50 -0400
From: jferris <jferris154 * mac>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Question - The Man Of Peace

Bruce P Gordon wrote:

>Can anyone share some experiences
>with how this has worked in a suburban
>context?
>
>I live in a quiet New England
>suburb of Hartford, CT.
>There's great abundance of
>* material prosperity
>* spiritual emptiness
>* Mainline & RC churches
>
>The Lord has burdened me for
>my neighborhood & town,
>but I feel like I could benefit
>from some examples of how this
>has worked in the type of context
>I work in.
>
>Thanks, Bruce
>
Dear Bruce,

Having left the shoreline of Connecticut only 9 years ago, I can attest
that it is tough turf. We were there for 20 years. Our home was open for
19 of those twenty, except thatwe spent one year in Germany, 87 -88.

In the 70s it was easy, the charismatic renewal was just coming in, and
you had to "stand behind a tree to bait your hook" in those days. We
just opened our home, and began to meet. It was summer. We also opened
our windows, and sang. The neighbors heard, and responded,....
positively. At one point I felt that I needed to invite in all the
neighbors. I went to the town hall to get the voter registration lists
in order not to miss anyone immediately surrounding our home. The letter
I sent didn't bring anyone in. Some years later, I sent out the
following to those who were already meeting in homes, or thinking about
it. This one resulted in a couple of very helpful meeting, called to
discuss the government of God.

Carleen and I wanted to follow up on our invitation with this
written reminder and confirmation of the carry in supper, (Please
bring a salad or a main dish, we will supply bread, dessert, and
beverage.) and discussion at our home on Friday evening the 17th
of January at 6:00 PM.

As mentioned, after supper we hope to share some thoughts which
have been clarifying for the past several years. We have invited
those who have already opened their homes, are thinking about it,
or in some other way are involved in ministry, but not
necessar ily
with explicit institutional covering.

This is a matter which is very dear to our hearts, and about
which we would like to share in three related areas, the cost,
the warfare, and an alternative to institutional accountability.
These are critically important issues

Out of consideration for others who will be joining with us, try
to come as close to 6:00 as possible.

If you have any questions, please feel free to call.
Sincerely,

One of our most fruitful helpers was a women we had led to The Lord. The
Lord led her to open a Christian Bookstore. In Old Saybrook. She was a
constant source of new contacts, and a great one for getting the word
out. Still is.

Anytime someone came who already had a church affiliation, that became
an opportunity to reach out to the pastor of that church. When those who
were already meeting with us found Sunday morning church homes, that
also became an opportunity to reach out to the pastors of those
churches. There was often conflict, but in the end, the result was that
there was some good fellowship among the local pastors, and they
accepted me in that fellowship. I should also say that when the New
testament fast guns came in to the area, The Vinyard, The Rock Church,
and several other unaffiliated variaties, those who became caught up in
those "churches", disappeared from the fellowship of the saints in the area.

When we saw and experienced the warfare that comes at those meeting in
himes from those meeting in institutions, we began to focus our
attention on the institutional leadership, and that is still our primary
concentration today. That has been very fruitful.

Yours in Christ,

Jay


------- <><><> -------


Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:30:40 -0400
From: David Anderson <david * housechurch>
Subject: Re: [NTCP] Jesus not God but as a god

Ampe,

Do you represent an organization. If so, what?

Have you come to this list to inform us that Jesus is not God? If it is,
then I can inform you that there are many lists other than ntcp where you
might convert others much more easily. I don't wish that on any list, of
course.

Please level with us.

David Anderson


------- <><><> -------


Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:28:41 -0400
From: forwarded <forwarded * homechurch>
Subject: [NTCP] Arian Heresy

From Link
linkh * mcdowell.main.nc.us

As moderator, I need to make a decision on an issue in the forum. NTCP is
not designed to be a place to promote heresy. Arian and Ebionite doctrine
have long been recognized as heresies by the church. On the other hand,
discussion of the nature of the Godhead, and how to teach it, is on topic
for a church planting forum.

I would like input from others on the forum about how you would like to
deal with the issue of discussing such issues on this forum.

Link Hudson,
Marion, NC, USA
(forum moderator.)

 


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